Episode 253
Growing an Empire: 7 Salon Concepts + Agency + Venue Space | Dana Fountain | Beauty Platform Creator/She-E-O | Pin Me Up Chicago & Your Beauty Blueprint
From salon assistant to She-E-O of 7 salon concepts, a bridal agency, and an event space, Dana Fountain shares the scrappy, strategic moves that helped her build a beauty empire from the ground up.
In this episode, she breaks down how to calculate your financial needs, grow without debt, choose the right business partners, and turn relationships into real opportunities—all while staying true to your vision
Follow/subscribe to be the first to know when new episodes are released. Like what you hear? Leave us a review!
KEY TAKEAWAYS:
🔅Start Small, Grow Smart: Dana began by renting a tiny space with four chairs and scaled slowly, ensuring each move was financially viable before expanding.
🔅Understand Your Break-Even Point: Dana emphasizes learning how to calculate your true financial needs, using tools like her Your Beauty Blueprint workbook to plan realistically.
🔅Partnerships Require Clarity: She advises establishing aligned goals and mutual benefit before entering any business partnership—and always recommends formal agreements.
🔅Diversify Revenue Streams: Dana’s empire includes salons, bridal services, and venue rentals—demonstrating how to blend passion with profitable business models.
🔅Relationships Are Everything: From clients to collaborators, Dana stresses that relationship-building has been key to every venture she’s launched.
🔅Utilize What You Have: She maximized her network and client base to build capital, including personal loans and non-traditional funding approaches to start owning property.
🔅Get Business Literate: Her success is grounded in learning to run the numbers—she advises stylists to treat their careers like businesses, not just a craft.
👉Follow Dana on Instagram
💡Check out all of Dana's platforms from Your Beauty BluePrint and her salon concepts, to her bridal agency and event space HERE
The Hairdresser Strong Show is all about Salon Owners, Rising Stylists, and Seasoned Stylists sharing their experiences, successes, failures, and advice to inform, educate, and empower their Fellow Hairdresser. We won’t stop until we are all: Hairdresser Strong.
CONNECT WITH US
📬 Subscribe to our free newsletter
The views and opinions of our guests are theirs and important to hear. Each guest's views and opinions are their own and we aim to bring you diverse perspectives, career paths and thoughts about the craft and industry so you can become Hairdresser Strong! They do not necessarily reflect the positions of HairdresserStrong.com.
Transcript
Dana Fountain is a 22 year industry veteran, a beauty platform creator, a wife, a mom and a hairdresser.
Speaker A:She is an owner of seven salon concepts, Pin Me Up Chicago bridal Agency and a wedding and event venue space.
Speaker A:This includes 61 employees in the salons, four business partners across everything, two managers, 131 freelancers, eight commission contractors and 15 members.
Speaker A:Today we're going to hear all about her story, how she got to where she is and peak behind the curtain of this massive and expansive empire.
Speaker A:Welcome back to the Hair.
Speaker A:Just a strong show.
Speaker A:My name is Robert Hughes and I am your host and today I'm with Dana Fountain.
Speaker A:How you doing today, Dana?
Speaker B:I'm great.
Speaker B:Thanks for having me.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:Thank you for taking the time.
Speaker A:You know, that introduction just indicates that I should be very, very grateful and very, very honored, which I am.
Speaker A:So thank you for taking the time to talk to me and share your story with our community.
Speaker A:I'm very much looking forward to this.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:Thank you for having me and I'm happy to share.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker A:Well, for context, to all the viewers and listeners, I met Dana at Beauty Gives Back.
Speaker A:Shout out to Maria and everyone should go check out Beauty Gives Back.
Speaker A:It is an amazing event.
Speaker A:And we were doing exit interviews after everybody was on stage and I had and I, I got chance to do so with Dana and now we're here and we get to talk.
Speaker A:That was way back in the fall.
Speaker A:So it's taken a little while.
Speaker A:But like all good things, you know, come to those who wait.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So, okay, so let's jump right in.
Speaker A:So why don't you give us a little bit of information about like, you know, getting into the industry and kind of tell us where you feel like your journey like kind of took off in entrepreneurship.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I love that we met at Beauty Gives Back because like Maria, I'm super passionate about that like one to three years into the business because I feel like that's the hardest to navigate.
Speaker B:And like most of us that have been in the industry for a long time, it kind of, you know, we took the hard road.
Speaker B:And so anybody I can, you know, kind of tell you, do as I say, not as I did kind of thing.
Speaker B:I feel like it's appreciated.
Speaker B:So, so I started with the Tricosi Salons, a big salon chain here in Chicago.
Speaker B:Great education, you know, very nice high end clientele.
Speaker B:There were quite a few locations by the suburban malls and then one downtown on Michigan Avenue.
Speaker B:So, you know, right out of beauty school, started at Tricosi, or I was still in beauty school working at Tricosi.
Speaker B:So I felt like I was already in the nicest salon finishing up my license and was getting great education.
Speaker B:I always say I'm old enough to be classically trained, but young enough to know that there's still a lot to learn.
Speaker B:So I was trained as a haircutter and kind of politicked my way up the churcosy ladder as far as you could go.
Speaker B:And then I quickly realized that, you know, an educator at a, or a education director at a large commission salon was still not kind of enough money for me.
Speaker B:It was very competitive, very clicky and all the things.
Speaker B:And I just, you know, quickly realized that it was a box, you know, and you could only go, go so far to the top.
Speaker B:So after Jocosy I met, I always bartended and waitressed my way through everything as well as a young hairstylist.
Speaker B:So I always encourage young artists to.
Speaker B:It's okay if you have to do things outside of the beauty industry, especially in the service industry, sometimes that supports your clientele.
Speaker B:So I kind of always bartended and waitress my way in my early twenties and such and.
Speaker A:Can I ask you a question about that?
Speaker A:Sorry, yeah, of course.
Speaker A:When you recommend, when you recommend to rising stylists, it's that it's okay to work outside the industry while you're building yourself up.
Speaker A:My personal experience has been they don't want to have multiple jobs.
Speaker A:They're looking for like the one job.
Speaker A:Now is that are you having a similar experience, if so in or, and, and or how is it different?
Speaker B:So yes, agree.
Speaker B:I, I do feel like some of the trend is saying like the hustle culture is out and you know, take care of your mental health and all of that and that's all fair.
Speaker B:But that's not how I came up.
Speaker B:So I can't necessarily say, you know, again, I did it the easy way.
Speaker B:But I do think there's something to be said for working in different, different environments.
Speaker B:Like you're learning, you're learning all types of things in different environments.
Speaker B:I know for myself working in the service industry, I learned people, you know, I.
Speaker B:Anybody can sit in my chair and I could have a conversation with them.
Speaker B:I feel like sometimes stylists that only know the salon setting and never worked in any other type of public customer service type businesses, they don't always have the people skills that it requires to be a booked and busy stylist.
Speaker B:So 100.
Speaker B:I'm always about other industries and opportunities.
Speaker B:Know you don't have to be there long and it might not be the, you know, your end all be all but that you're not supposed to work in the same place your whole life.
Speaker A:Totally.
Speaker A:I like, I, I love, to me it's just scrappy.
Speaker A:It's not hustling.
Speaker A:It's like, it's like you kind of like, like, like if we had a, some.
Speaker A:We had a couple people come in and you know, with hairdresser strong.
Speaker A:We have so much education and opportunity in this area.
Speaker A:We're more of a local focus thing which sounds like you do a lot of local stuff too.
Speaker A:But like, like coming in and working with you I would imagine would be such a great opportunity.
Speaker A:And if you told me that you only had part time hours available, I wouldn't be like, sorry, I need somewhere.
Speaker A:I just don't want to have to deal with multiple schedules and stuff.
Speaker A:It's like, you know, I'll just go and find a place that'll give me what I want versus going to the place that I want.
Speaker A:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:So anyway, that's my, my little detour off of your storyline.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Okay, so we're so, so you're, you're talking to, to young people and you're telling them to go off and, and you know, advising them and you're passionate about the one to three year period.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So after I worked at Jacobi for a little while, I was an educator for Jocosy and just still felt like there I was in a box, I was in the ceiling.
Speaker B:So I wound up meeting a couple guys that owned more of a boutique salon and that just happened to be in the Loop downtown Chicago.
Speaker B:And so that was really pivotal for me because the salon was located in the Chicago Pedway, which connects a lot of the high rises downtown.
Speaker B:And so it's very busy during the week, but there's no one in there on the weekends.
Speaker B:So I was able to work, you know, kind of normal business hours.
Speaker B:I, I've always worked kind of like 10 to 6, 11 to 7 kind of hours in the Loop Monday through Friday.
Speaker B:And so as a young stylist I had a.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:The building I was in was attorneys, a big law firm, Leo Burnett, a large advertising agency, and then on the other side was the Renaissance Hotel.
Speaker B:So we also had like tourists and, and things like that.
Speaker B:So I had a really cool clientele very young, very early on and I had as a young hairstylist, I had a lot of confidence because I was classically trained and I grew a clientele really quickly with really cool people.
Speaker B:That I saw myself see to this day.
Speaker B:And I was in my early 20s, and I started doing weddings on Saturdays, because I was off on Saturdays.
Speaker B:And again, not to promote that you have to work seven days a week, but I sure did.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:So I was, you know, growing my clientele.
Speaker B:I was still bartending a couple nights a week.
Speaker B:And then all of a sudden, I got this idea that my friend's sister got married.
Speaker B:That was my first wedding.
Speaker B:And there was like 10 bridesmaids.
Speaker B:And I think I probably charged them all 50 bucks a piece, you know, and then I quickly realized, hey, this is another bar shift.
Speaker B:I just made a few hundred bucks.
Speaker B:And so then I started doing friends of friends and other friends, sisters and things like that.
Speaker B:So I really love the idea of meeting another group of women every weekend wedding.
Speaker B:So I came, brought it back to my boss at the time, and I said, we should do weddings.
Speaker B:And he was a very Italian Vidal Sassoon owner from Italy.
Speaker B:And he.
Speaker B:He would call me Donna.
Speaker B:Donna, why would we want to do that?
Speaker B:Why would we want to deal with weddings?
Speaker B:And I'm like, well, this is why there's money in this.
Speaker B:And he was said, you know, we're all writers of our own story.
Speaker B:And me and David's story is that we have nine full time hairdressers that really take care of their clients.
Speaker B:You're all over the place.
Speaker B:I said, okay.
Speaker B:So then I quickly realized that I had hit my glass ceiling there.
Speaker B:I had this beautiful clientele that I built out of that salon in about a year.
Speaker B:And then I realized, and this was before salon suites and booth rental was even really a thing for a young Caucasian hairstylist in Chicago.
Speaker B:I knew I had to figure it out or go somewhere that I could do both weddings and my clientele.
Speaker B:So I had met another girl who had an even smaller boutique salon that had four chairs in a building across the street from me called the Pittsfield building.
Speaker B:And so when I joined her, that was my first booth rental situation.
Speaker B:I spent the last couple weeks at my commission situation just gathering all my clients information.
Speaker B:Not like from the system or anything, Just in my notebook.
Speaker B:I wrote down, you know, all the clients I love.
Speaker B:John Smith, attorney at Winston and Straw.
Speaker B:Three kids.
Speaker B:His wife's name is Sarah, you know, Rod Stewart, creative director at Leo Burnett, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker B:So I just.
Speaker B:I really jotted down all the details of all my clients.
Speaker B:And then I went on the Internet and I found all their email addresses, and I announced that, you know, I see more for myself with a situation That I can control my hours and things like that.
Speaker B:So I'm heading over to this booth rental situation.
Speaker B:I'd be.
Speaker B:It would love it if you join me.
Speaker B:If not, I understand you're in great hands at XCX with David and Gary.
Speaker B:And I retained most of my clients.
Speaker B:They thought it was so cool.
Speaker B:And it was like two blocks the other way, so it wasn't far.
Speaker B:And then that's how I started my independent beauty business.
Speaker B:And it just.
Speaker B:Over the years, it's just kind of snowballed.
Speaker B:So in that building, what's unique about this area in the Loop downtown, like in kind of the central business district is before boutique salons, there were some chain salons or super cuts and stuff like that, but there were department store salons like Carsons and Macy's.
Speaker B:And though they all had salons, so they closed.
Speaker B:And those hairdressers also had these downtown clienteles.
Speaker B:So they found themselves in small office condominiums.
Speaker B:So they're kind of like little suites, but they were, you know, just office condominiums.
Speaker B:So I worked in a space with four chairs for about another year or so.
Speaker B:And then I met the salesman of the building I'm in now, and he was actually selling an office condominium.
Speaker B:And so that changed the trajectory of my entire career.
Speaker B:And real estate is a huge part of my love, my story.
Speaker B:And I bought my first office condominium on the seventh floor of the Garland building right over Millennium Park.
Speaker B:So I'll show you out my window in a minute, but I'm right over the bean.
Speaker B:And I had my first studio four chair salon.
Speaker B:It already had two shampoo bowls.
Speaker B:And I bought it for $60,000.
Speaker A:Hold on.
Speaker A:The hold up.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:The condo was $60,000.
Speaker A:The real estate was 60,000, and it.
Speaker B:Was already a salon.
Speaker A:That's amazing.
Speaker B:It had two shampoo bowls.
Speaker B:It was right next to a famous restaurant called Heaven on seven.
Speaker B:And it was my first little studio.
Speaker A:That's crazy.
Speaker A:You know, here in D.C.
Speaker A:i don't know what the situation is in Chicago, but I think parking.
Speaker A:Parking spaces go for like 40, 50 grand.
Speaker B:I believe that.
Speaker A:That's crazy.
Speaker A:That's amazing.
Speaker A:What's up?
Speaker B:They do here as well.
Speaker A:Okay, so how long?
Speaker A:What.
Speaker A:What year was that?
Speaker B: So that was in: Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So like kind of the market was not fully come back from.
Speaker B:What happened was this building had just went off as condominium, so it was all rentals, like office space rentals.
Speaker B:And then the building, a developer came in and switched them to office condominiums.
Speaker B:And Sold the units.
Speaker B:So it was just a really awkward like.
Speaker B:Like no one else would want it for office space.
Speaker A:Totally.
Speaker B:You know, it was only a good deal for someone like me that would use it as a salon.
Speaker B:So I bought that first office condominium, and we.
Speaker B:It was 294 square feet, and I put four stations in there.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:There were two bags of vacations with four chairs and two shampoo bowls that we pushed the chairs to the side, and so we were using them.
Speaker B:And so people have told me over the years, I can make the most money per square footage they've ever met.
Speaker B:So, as you can imagine, my overhead went from, you know, 250 a week in booth rent to a mortgage of $60,000, which was nothing.
Speaker B:And then in that space, I had three booth renters and myself.
Speaker A:Oh, wow.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I made quite a lot of money out of that little shoebox.
Speaker A:So do you still.
Speaker A:Is this what you're in right now?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:So this is one of my other spaces.
Speaker B:I do still own space I rented to a barber and his team, and they pay me 500 a week, 2,000amonth.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:And now I own.
Speaker B:I own the space outright.
Speaker B:So now that's just, you know, nice.
Speaker A:Is this, like, are the.
Speaker A:Do you own multiple units in the same building?
Speaker B:Correct.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:So I went from my seventh floor space.
Speaker B:This is my 14th floor space, and the space is the lake.
Speaker B:And this is two salon suites.
Speaker B:So one of the rooms I'm in now, one of my hairdressers is gone for the day.
Speaker B:That's why I came up here.
Speaker B:So it was quiet.
Speaker B:And then I have this suite that has two stations, and then there's the same thing on the other side.
Speaker B:And then the shampoo bowls are in the common area.
Speaker B:So I bought this space.
Speaker B:Next, when I was in the space, I ran this side with three stations.
Speaker B:So there were six stations in here total.
Speaker B:Definitely was not, you know, Covid six feet apart, but it was fine.
Speaker B:And then from this space, I took over another space on the 13th floor, and that's a 10 chair salon.
Speaker A:Nice.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Also quaint.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I wouldn't say an architect would put 10 chairs in that salon, but, okay, we make it work.
Speaker B:Two shampoo bowls, 10 chairs, and I have 12 hairdressers that work out of that space.
Speaker B:And then one of my booth renters in mainspace, he was more of a full service, full time colorist and stylist.
Speaker B:And I was always more of, like, a transient artist.
Speaker B:Like, I would, you know, I want to be in the salon a couple of days a week.
Speaker B:But I worked, I've always booked on the half hour, so I always kind of knocked out my clients.
Speaker B:And then I love being in, you know, the hair.
Speaker B:Hair show world and educating and being on the road and doing weddings and stuff like that.
Speaker B:So main space is the space on 13, and it's more of a transient space.
Speaker B:I have some people that are part time, full time in that space.
Speaker B:I have artists from 25 to 82.
Speaker B:So I have, you know, my two older gentlemen that come and do, you know, their roller sets every Tuesday and Friday.
Speaker B:So what's so unique about my spaces down here is they house so many different professionals and they're so different.
Speaker B:We, you know, cater to everything.
Speaker B:And it's just everyone's journeys have crossed paths to be in these spaces because we're all the.
Speaker B:The same type of independent stylist that just needs a salon home, but we don't need anything else.
Speaker B:We don't need really much support or marketing or whatever.
Speaker B:Like, we kind of all had our own clientele.
Speaker B:And so my friend from across the street, James, he joined me and wanted to rent two stations because he was busy.
Speaker B:And so then I said, all right, why don't we start to think about our own situation?
Speaker B:So then him and I partnered.
Speaker B:This is my first partnership.
Speaker B:Him and I partnered on our 18th floor space called Neon Avenue.
Speaker A:Is this the third space?
Speaker B:Third space.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So main space.
Speaker B: ,: Speaker B: ,: Speaker B:Those are all under the main space LLC umbrella and that I own that solely.
Speaker B:And then James and I partnered on Neon Avenue.
Speaker B:And that is an eight chair salon.
Speaker B:And everyone in that space is full time colorists.
Speaker B:We have a couple group men's grooming specialists, but most mostly color.
Speaker B:And so in that space, we decided to charge a little bit more for booth rent, but everyone share back bar and color.
Speaker B:So we have a weekly budget from everyone's booth rent that keeps the salon stocked with back bar and color.
Speaker A:And what happens if, like, have you ever run into a point where you didn't have enough color or they went over budget?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker B:So what we do is we order weekly.
Speaker B:So every single week we just replace what's been used.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:And do they have a limit on the board on the.
Speaker A:On the order?
Speaker A:Like a budget on the order?
Speaker B:Yeah, a budget on the order, yes.
Speaker A:Okay, so they're gonna order up to a certain amount?
Speaker B:Correct.
Speaker B:Okay, we have.
Speaker B:What is it?
Speaker B:I think it's $140 a week is.
Speaker A:So do they get.
Speaker A:Do.
Speaker A:Do they also have any support staff?
Speaker A:Or they're all doing their own shampoos.
Speaker B:Or they're all doing their own shampoos.
Speaker B:My partner does work with an assistant.
Speaker B:She kind of keeps the salon clean and does towels and all that for everybody.
Speaker B:But he.
Speaker B:He pays her directly.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, because the support stuff for me is like, where it's at, like.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Expensive.
Speaker A:Nice.
Speaker A:Okay, so that's.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:That's space number three, but total we're at.
Speaker A:We've talked about four.
Speaker A:You had three under in one building under your thing, and then you got one in another location.
Speaker A:So we're building.
Speaker B:It's just on the 18th floor.
Speaker A:How many do you have in the building?
Speaker B:Four.
Speaker A:Four.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:And one is with a partner, and the other three are yours.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Correct.
Speaker A:Got it.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:And then out of my 13 floor space, I started Pin Me up, my on location bridal agency, 14 years ago.
Speaker B:So we started with just myself and my girlfriend that was a makeup artist kind of doing our own weddings.
Speaker B:And then we formed a team.
Speaker B:And over the years, we've just grown and grown and grown.
Speaker B:21 was.
Speaker B:2021 was obviously when everything exploded after Covid because of all the postponed and canceled events and all the things.
Speaker B: So in: Speaker B:Our growth really skyrocketed.
Speaker B: And last year, in: Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker A:That's so sick.
Speaker B:Crazy.
Speaker B:And so it.
Speaker B:It's pretty amazing that every year I just continue to recruit the team that can handle that volume, and then the appointments just keep coming.
Speaker B: So in: Speaker B:And so oftentimes, hairdressers, freelance hairdressers, would come in and we'd run out of room.
Speaker B: So in: Speaker B:But I know.
Speaker B:I knew I didn't want that business to have its own overhead because that business is kind of my cash cow.
Speaker B:So one of my makeup artists that worked for Pin Me up, her name is Sam, she was also.
Speaker B:I had bought.
Speaker B:I had a business partner in Pin Me up for a few years.
Speaker B: And in: Speaker B:She was going in a different direction, so I bought her out.
Speaker B:And then my friend Sam, who I often did weddings with, she.
Speaker B:When I bought out Brittany, she would say, let me know if you ever want another partner?
Speaker B:And I'm like, no, I'm good.
Speaker B: So in: Speaker B:I do think that we could do a space together because I know Pin Me up has some budget, but I also have all these freelancers that really don't have a studio home.
Speaker B:And so we put our heads together and we came up with the concept Pure Beauties.
Speaker B:So Pure Beauty P E R Beauty came from Sam being an independent makeup artist.
Speaker B:She would plug into Pin Me up sometimes, but she also had, you know, her own weddings and she partnered with other hair hairstylists and makeup artists.
Speaker B:She also had a great management background.
Speaker B:She was like a district manager for Dry Bar.
Speaker B:She had managed Blue Mercury.
Speaker B:So she also knew a lot of the retail freelance makeup artists.
Speaker B:And then I felt like I know most of the hair people.
Speaker B:And so we put our joint experiences together and we created the Pure beauty concept.
Speaker B:We found a great space.
Speaker B:We almost bought a space in this building and we were gonna buy it, but the seller was way behind in taxes and assessments and he couldn't, he would have to like pay all that to close.
Speaker B:So we wound up finding another space.
Speaker B:We didn't purchase it.
Speaker B:We are renting that space.
Speaker B:But it's in River North.
Speaker B:It's on the third floor of a building in a great location.
Speaker B:And it's a pretty cool concept.
Speaker B:It's a shared artist workspace.
Speaker B:So I.
Speaker B:It has about 15 stations, but instead of making individual stations like in a salon, I knew that would take up too much space.
Speaker B:I used restaurant prep tables as the counters and just like a custom lit mirror so that we can kind of fit as many as we need in there at a time.
Speaker B:And then we also have four rooms.
Speaker B:So we have four suites.
Speaker B:So our thought obviously was the suite rental will cover our overhead and the membership business or the, the shared artist workspace business would, you know, be great for our network.
Speaker B:So Pin Me up is, has a team membership.
Speaker B:It's a membership based model and basically independent freelance hair and makeup artists use it as their studio home.
Speaker B:Makeup artists specifically, they don't necessarily, you know, need a salon suite or rent a chair in a salon because they're usually on location for most of their work, usually in the studio, you know, one or two days a week or if they create content or something like that.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So we knew that the space was needed for, for it.
Speaker B:And we both had a large network of independent hair and makeup artists.
Speaker B:So Pin Me up is a T has a team membership and then we have a couple other bridal teams that work out of there as well.
Speaker B:They use it as their studio home, and then we have about 13 members that use it as their studio home.
Speaker B:And then in our suites, we have a hairdresser that rents one of the rooms, an esthetician that's in another room, and three spray tanners that share another room.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker A:Okay, so I'm curious about this, but first, before I ask you the.
Speaker A:The one question, I want to go back to something, so can you tell us, like, I know for a fact there's someone listening or watching that is thinking about opening up something and is also thinking about doing it with a partner.
Speaker A:And so first question is, what advice do you have for anybody when thinking about partnership?
Speaker A:You know, what things look for, how to think about it, how to approach it, etc.
Speaker A:Red flags would be nice.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:So, I mean, you definitely have to have common goals.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:So in both of my.
Speaker B:In all my partnerships, but in my.
Speaker B:My two partnerships, in these situations we've talked about already, it was mutually beneficial.
Speaker B:So James left a commission situation in main space solved a lot of his problems, but it wasn't the perfect environment for him.
Speaker B:So if you, you know, you can move around until you find the perfect environment or you can create it.
Speaker B:So I knew he had the clientele to support it.
Speaker B:He had already worked in my space, so we worked well together.
Speaker B:He had a.
Speaker B:You know, he had.
Speaker B:He made great money, and he was just a great guy.
Speaker B:So I wanted to help him create the space that he wanted.
Speaker B:And that's not how I work.
Speaker B:I still work out of mainspace.
Speaker B:But his vision for Neon Avenue, he knew that if he had his own space, that two or three of the people from the salon he came from would join.
Speaker B:So to me, then, it's just a numbers game.
Speaker B:You know, it's.
Speaker B:We wound up purchasing that unit as well.
Speaker B:So it's just.
Speaker B:Again, it's just a numbers game.
Speaker B:If we had enough renters to cover the cost and there's a little bit extra and he could work for free and I could make a couple bucks, then, you know, it's worth it.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:And then you bought this space with them, right?
Speaker A:Correct, yeah.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker A:And how many out of the seven spaces that seven salon concepts, how many of them are own, are like, how many do you lease versus how many do you own?
Speaker B:So I rent three, I own three, and I rent four.
Speaker A:You own three, Rent four, yes.
Speaker A:So you own three that.
Speaker A:Well, you said you had four in that building that you're in.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:One of these I rent as well.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So again, it just depends on, like, your numbers.
Speaker B:Like, the one.
Speaker B:The space that faces the lake, the guy that owns it, you know, has a very reasonable rent.
Speaker B:But if he were to sell it to me, my overhead would go up, and then my bottom line would come down.
Speaker B:So it doesn't make sense to buy it right now.
Speaker B:It may make sense later, but with property taxes and assessments, my overhead would go up.
Speaker A:Gotcha.
Speaker A:And then.
Speaker A:And then when it comes to, like, someone like myself thinking, like, is there some, like, creative financing going on?
Speaker A:Access to a trust fund or even lottery?
Speaker B:Like, none of that, unfortunately, when I tell you, kind of scrappy.
Speaker B:Kind of scrappy.
Speaker B:So in my first space, my $60,000 base, I called my friend who was a mortgage broker, and he laughed at me.
Speaker B:He was like, you want me to give you a mortgage for $60,000?
Speaker B:And I was like, well, yeah, that's what I need.
Speaker B:And he said, well, why don't I just give you the $60,000 and you could pay me?
Speaker B:And I was like, okay, works for me.
Speaker B:And so to this day, that's amazing.
Speaker B:Yeah, to this day, Sergio and I are still business partners.
Speaker B:We own it together, and I try to buy them out every year.
Speaker B:We file taxes, and I try to buy them out.
Speaker B:And he's like, no, I'm good.
Speaker B:I'm like, fine.
Speaker B:So it's really about relationships.
Speaker B:I've also borrowed really expensive money.
Speaker B:When I took over my 13th floor space, I did your classic, you know, go to Chase, open a business account, and then they give you a Chase Ink card with a $25,000 limit.
Speaker B:Great.
Speaker B:I went in and bought $10,000 worth of equipment and paid on it for 10 years and probably paid, you know, $30,000 total for a bunch of, like, shit salon equipment.
Speaker B:So I think that, you know, I've also borrowed a lot of really expensive money in my day.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So is there, like, does it get easier the more property you own to borrow money?
Speaker B:It does help.
Speaker B:It does help.
Speaker B:When you are doing, like, a personal financial statement.
Speaker B:If you have equity in property, that just goes to, like, straight to your net worth.
Speaker B:The other part that's super important that took me a long time to build is to put myself on a payroll.
Speaker B:So, you know, most of us, especially independent contractors, have a hard time claiming our income because we expense most of it.
Speaker B:So it's that balance between, you know, when do you claim it, when do you expense it out, and when do you play it and pay, claim it and pay taxes on it so you can buy something.
Speaker B:So your purchasing power also is determined by your income, by your stated income.
Speaker A:And have you ever had to leverage one property for another one?
Speaker B:I have, I have.
Speaker A:What is that?
Speaker A:What is that like?
Speaker A:Can you just explain?
Speaker A:There are people listening, watching, don't even know what I just said.
Speaker A:Can you explain this?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:So if you have like equity or collateral in something, a mortgage company or a loan will take first lien position.
Speaker B:So first lien position means if you don't pay your mortgage or you, you know, something happens, then they'll go after the equity in your other property.
Speaker B:So because my seventh floor unit was paid off, it never had a mortgage.
Speaker B:So a mortgage company typically has the first lien position over the property.
Speaker B:So if you don't pay your mortgage, you go into foreclosure, they get their money, they sell it.
Speaker B:Well, my seventh floor unit didn't have a mortgage on paper because it was a personal loan basically.
Speaker B:And so I then use the equity in my seventh floor space to give a mortgage company lean position.
Speaker A:Got it, got it.
Speaker A:So where did you learn all this stuff?
Speaker B:Trial and error?
Speaker A:Oh no, you didn't have anybody to like, you know, hit up and be like, hey, what do I, should I do next?
Speaker B:I lied.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:So one of my mentors is Joe Tucci from Sugar Hair Care.
Speaker B:He's from New Jersey, New York, New Jersey.
Speaker B:He was John DeLaria's partner for many, many, many years.
Speaker B:And I met him just when I opened my first salon.
Speaker B:And I was working with him in Sugar Hair Care for the last 13 years.
Speaker B:And he did something similar as a young businessman.
Speaker B:He bought a building in New Jersey over the span of his very successful career.
Speaker B:He sold the building multiple times.
Speaker B:And so he's made his money like 20 times over on this building.
Speaker B:And so he has mentored me a lot in, in some of my real estate stuff.
Speaker B:More, more really along the lines of like understanding your bottom line and your break even point, you know, does it make sense to build out $150,000 salon?
Speaker B:Well, it depends, you know, is, are, are you making that much money and can you afford that much overhead?
Speaker B:And you know, it's all about understanding your bottom line.
Speaker B:So I think my journey is a little unique because I started so small, like I could always afford the little thing that I was doing and then as that grew, then I could afford the next thing or I was confident to do the next or take the, you know, take the chance on the next group of people or whatever.
Speaker B:But it always came down to the bottom line of who's committed, who's here, what do they need, how much money are they going to pay and what's it going to cost me.
Speaker A:Do you work, do you run your own financials and project and make your own projections or do you work with an accountant or.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker A:Financial advisor.
Speaker B:Yeah, so I work with a business advisor.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:I work very closely with my accountant.
Speaker B:She's.
Speaker B:I've been with her for also 13, 14 years and I've really taking the time to learn it all.
Speaker B:I did the Goldman Sachs Small Business 10 KSB program.
Speaker B:I highly recommend that for salon owners.
Speaker B:I think your business has to gross $250,000 a year in order to qualify for that program.
Speaker B:But it's a free program and it's a 12 week, 12 or 16 week curriculum.
Speaker B: ave when I had my daughter in: Speaker A:Nice.
Speaker B:So I'm like a sucker for any type of business resource class coach.
Speaker B:I love all the coaches.
Speaker B:Give me all the coaches.
Speaker A:Nice.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker A:I love that.
Speaker A:I love the testament.
Speaker A:Okay, so, so there was, there was another question I had about the real estate stuff.
Speaker A:Oh, when you're looking at starting a new venture, do you look for a minimum profit margin?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:What is that minimum?
Speaker B:Well, I mean, I wouldn't say minimum profit margin.
Speaker B:I would say a break even point and an opportunity zone.
Speaker A:Okay, so how do you just like.
Speaker A:Are you saying you're not gonna get into a business venture?
Speaker A:Let's just say buying a space or renting, whatever.
Speaker A:Opening up a space, the cost that it's going to take you to build based on your projections.
Speaker A:Is there anything that you can put there or, or talk on?
Speaker A:Tell us about that.
Speaker B:Yeah, so just really understanding your breakeven point is like the most important part sometimes doing business, like having a business partner to share the expenses but also share the responsibility.
Speaker B:You know, that's why a lot of hairdressers, you know, leave salons together or, you know, things like that.
Speaker B:But I definitely caution you and I could do a whole nother episode on partnership agreements.
Speaker B:Um, so it's really just being able to manage the responsibility.
Speaker A:So how about this?
Speaker A:What type of opportunity are you looking for when you're thinking about going into a new venture?
Speaker B:So, so everything was case by case.
Speaker B:So when I acquired the other spaces in this building, I had people that needed space.
Speaker B:So I, you know, I was like, okay, I know at least these two renters have full clientele.
Speaker B:It makes sense to get this Other space.
Speaker B:So we just kept growing that way.
Speaker B:When James and I partnered, I knew he could support the space on his own.
Speaker B:And then he thought he had a couple of people that would join him.
Speaker B:So now, you know, years later, we're full and.
Speaker B:And then we bought the space during COVID So that's a great investment all the way around.
Speaker B:I don't even have to be there.
Speaker B:He runs it on the day to day.
Speaker B:We both make a couple thousand dollars profit a month, plus we own the space.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So you're dealing the equity piece, I guess, maybe on a rental property, like, not let.
Speaker A:Because the equity piece, I think, makes sense.
Speaker B:For example.
Speaker B:So, for example, I have another business partner.
Speaker B:We have a salon in Wicker park.
Speaker B:And Mimi was in a.
Speaker B:She's an eyelash technician and a makeup artist.
Speaker B:She was renting in a toxic salon environment and was ready to go off on her own.
Speaker B:And so she asked me if I would help her.
Speaker B:And I said, of course.
Speaker B:And then she goes, would you be my partner?
Speaker B:And I said, well, I don't really know what value I bring.
Speaker B:Like, what do you need?
Speaker B:Like, what do you need?
Speaker B:And so I wound up being 30% owner in her business, and I just do the business part.
Speaker B:So I helped her negotiate her lease.
Speaker B:I helped her obtain some financing and just, you know, I didn't put any money in, but she borrowed the money to build out her salon, which wasn't bad.
Speaker B:I helped her do all the zoning and licensing and all the things that I had already done for my other spaces.
Speaker B:And we're still 70, 30 today.
Speaker B:So same thing.
Speaker B:Like, she kind of runs the books or runs the business, and I do the books and the taxes and all that stuff.
Speaker B:And there's.
Speaker B:Again, there's not a lot of profit, but it's still another seven renters that have a place to call home.
Speaker B:And then for me, it gives Pin Me up another place we can do trials.
Speaker A:Gotcha.
Speaker B:For pin me Up, I have, you know, pure beauty and pin me up or pure beauty and beauty hood, really service Pin me Up.
Speaker B:And so that saves me overhead and pick me up and then gives my.
Speaker B:My technicians a place to do their tries.
Speaker A:So when I think about brick and mortar, you know, I've run.
Speaker A:I've run numbers on a number of opportunities, but never pulled the trigger on any for various reasons.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:But what I noticed is every time we kind of get granular with it is the question is, like, how much do I want to make it?
Speaker A:Assuming I'm not doing hair there.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, so like, what is the opportunity for this business to run on its own in terms of, in terms of operators?
Speaker A:And then how much money can I make running that business?
Speaker A:And then I'm thinking like a salary.
Speaker A:I want to make at least say 80 grand for myself and maybe 80 grand if I had a partner.
Speaker A:And then is that a good way to approach it?
Speaker A:Do you like that kind of idea?
Speaker A:It's like, hey, here's all the expenses.
Speaker A:Now add in my, add in my, my, my salary.
Speaker A:And that's our goal.
Speaker A:And then can we reach that goal?
Speaker A:What is, what will it take to reach that goal?
Speaker A:And do we think that's realistic?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So then you, you are.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:That's how you would figure that out.
Speaker B:You just have to reverse engineer that and take it down to, you know, in my, in my beauty blueprint workbook, I have it broken down to, you know, like what you charge per client.
Speaker B:You know, if you say I have a little calculator that breaks it down from how much money you want to make.
Speaker B:Break even analysis.
Speaker B:Where is it?
Speaker B:How much money do you want to make your revenue goal setting calculator?
Speaker B:So it says, I want to make $100,000 this year and I want to take two vacation weeks and work five days a week, and that's 50 weeks a year.
Speaker B:And I want to see seven guests a day.
Speaker B:That's 35 guests a week and my minimum ticket is $57.
Speaker B:So you just kind of go through and say, okay, that, that's, you know, my total revenue.
Speaker B:And then you pop that revenue into your break even analysis.
Speaker B:And then your break even analysis starts to deconstruct all your costs.
Speaker B:So then it's your rent per week.
Speaker B:A lot of us also have living expenses, right?
Speaker B:So I always invite artists to also put your home rent in there, right?
Speaker B:Your, your work rent, your home rent, your phone bill, your liability insurance, health insurance, booking software, those are all your fixed costs.
Speaker B:And then I have all your variable cost, your products, your self employment tax, your savings, Those are all percentages.
Speaker B:And then it'll take you, that math will compute and it'll tell you your total weekly fixed costs, your total weekly variable cost, and then your break even analysis.
Speaker B:So for this example, you're, you have to make at least $963 a week to break even.
Speaker B:So that's why, you know, to your point, I want to make 80 grand.
Speaker B:Okay, what does that include?
Speaker B:Does that include like you want to take home 80 grand?
Speaker A:Yeah, I want to, yeah.
Speaker A:Minimum, like, right.
Speaker A:It's not worth Doing it.
Speaker A:If I don't make, can't make at least 80 grand.
Speaker A:That's kind of how I think of it.
Speaker B:Okay, so then you have to reverse engineer that and say, okay, in order to make 80 grand with my fixed and variable expenses, I need to see X amount of people a week.
Speaker B:And I, and that's what I need to make a week.
Speaker B:So I kind of do this with every single renter to make sure that they can under, you know, make sure they can afford their rent.
Speaker A:Do they?
Speaker A:You said you get, you give them that book and they go through it.
Speaker B:So I just published this book in September and it was for that reason I kept having renters be like, how do I do what you do?
Speaker B:I want to open a salon.
Speaker B:What do I need to do?
Speaker B:And I'm like, well, you have to get real clear with your goals.
Speaker B:You have to understand, you know, most of us as independent hairstylists, we don't even know what we make year to date.
Speaker B:You know, it's that, it's that financial discipline that most hairdressers don't have because we can make more money tomorrow.
Speaker B:You know, it's that revolving door of money.
Speaker B:Like, yeah, we can go out to dinner tonight.
Speaker B:I look at my calendar, I got a full book tomorrow, we're good.
Speaker A:So that's, that was definitely me when I was 19 and 21st getting started in this industry.
Speaker A:How I will say that when I talk to the students and people coming up, it's.
Speaker A:And anybody who's like, says they're kind of struggling or feeling overwhelmed or whatever, almost like 99 out of 10 times they haven't even like try to write it down on paper.
Speaker A:And, and so I think that's great.
Speaker A:I think, I think if you're out there and you're trying to get your stuff together, you know, making an outline of your, of your business and understanding your numbers is super important.
Speaker B:Yeah, and I use QuickBooks and spreadsheets and projections and all that now.
Speaker B:But I really think you have to learn the skill before you can start using softwares and things like that.
Speaker B:And so that's why the workbook was really important to me.
Speaker B:Because if you write it down on paper, you're learning the skill of bookkeeping and understanding your finances.
Speaker B:And then you can of course go to QuickBooks or create a spreadsheet or download a spreadsheet or Google sheets or whatever.
Speaker B:But it's more of the learning, learning the skill and even understanding your break even point.
Speaker B:You know, most hairdressers don't Even know their break.
Speaker A:Well, and it's like the amount of times I say, what's your average service ticket?
Speaker A:And they're like, it depends.
Speaker A:And I'm like, oh, my gosh.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So that.
Speaker A:That just goes and tells me that we have a whole.
Speaker A:We need a whole session.
Speaker A:Like, if you say it depends when I ask you what your average is, then.
Speaker A:Then clearly there's.
Speaker A:You're not thinking about your business and the way that you should be thinking about it.
Speaker A:I love this.
Speaker A:I love that book.
Speaker A:Where can people get that book?
Speaker B:On Amazon.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:I can send you the link or it's just your beauty blueprint by Dana Fountain on Amazon.
Speaker A:All right, well, I'll put that.
Speaker A:I'll put the information description below.
Speaker A:If you send me that link, then we'll make sure it's in the description.
Speaker A:For anybody watching and listening that wants to go and check that out.
Speaker A:I definitely recommend everybody check.
Speaker A:Go through the process of doing their numbers.
Speaker A:This is a great tool to do that with.
Speaker A:And also, I love this.
Speaker A:Like, you know, you love all the coaches, so, you know, getting a business coach or, you know, education, you know, YouTube.
Speaker A:What do you think about YouTube University?
Speaker B:Oh, my God, absolutely.
Speaker A:Do you like any.
Speaker A:Is there any recommendation you would.
Speaker A:Would make for YouTube University or not.
Speaker B:Off the top person that.
Speaker B:That needs to be, like, sit down and shown.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Like, if you're.
Speaker B:If you're the type of learner.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:Like, if you're somebody that can, like, grab a mannequin and watch a haircut and teach yourself the haircut or teach yourself the updo, by all means, like, 100%.
Speaker B:I am not.
Speaker B:I would be pausing every three seconds and I would punch my computer.
Speaker B:So I need someone to, like, sit me down and show me, and then I need to ask questions.
Speaker B:That's just how I need to process information.
Speaker A:Nice.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker A:So maybe, you know, if you're new and you're.
Speaker A:If you're new and you don't have any money, what would you recommend?
Speaker A:I guess buy your.
Speaker A:Your book.
Speaker A:And that's the first step.
Speaker B:Everyone starts somewhere.
Speaker A:You know, at what point in time do you think someone, like, it makes sense to pay somebody, like, as soon as you can afford it or, you know, is.
Speaker B:So it all depends on what your goals are.
Speaker B:I don't work with an assistant.
Speaker B:I work with a virtual assistant that.
Speaker A:No, I'm sorry, I meant.
Speaker A:I meant I'm sorry.
Speaker A:I'm in a business coach.
Speaker B:Oh, business coach.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:It depends what you can afford.
Speaker A:Okay, so based on affordability.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Affordability.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:There's.
Speaker B:You know, what I also invite people to do too, is your clients are usually a wealth of resources.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:We are the one of the only people that just get to talk freely with our clients during our appointments.
Speaker B:So I have billionaire clients.
Speaker B:I have, you know, I, my, I always call.
Speaker B:I only see kind of my VIP clients now.
Speaker B:I'm only in the salon one day a week, and I call the clients that I still see.
Speaker B:My board of directors.
Speaker B:So I have an HR director, I have a legal director.
Speaker B:I have a couple different legal directors.
Speaker B:Because I've been doing attorneys my whole career.
Speaker B:I take care of a very wealthy family.
Speaker B:So they're my investors.
Speaker B:And so, you know, your client really is.
Speaker B:Your clients are really a wealth of knowledge and they're usually all in different industries.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And they have a vested interest in your success.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:How many times I've heard the horror story of, you know, a client bought their hairdresser a salon and then it taped, you know, well, you also have to equip that hairdresser with some business skills or it's going to take totally, you know, and none of us are giving any, you know, really any business training.
Speaker B:So I've had to figure it out the hard way.
Speaker B:I have, you know, just a beauty school education.
Speaker B:I, you know, grew up on the south side of Chicago.
Speaker B:Like, no formal business training, but I've.
Speaker B:I've gone and sought it all out to learn it the hard way.
Speaker A:Totally.
Speaker A:This has been great.
Speaker A:This has been a great conversation and I really appreciate you sharing all this with us.
Speaker A:And so as we, as we sign, wrap up and sign off, is there any, like, last pieces of information or words of advice that you'd like to.
Speaker A:And then let us know where we can, where everyone can find you?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So my Instagram is M.
Speaker B:Mary Ss and Sam Da Na, the number four hair, Ms.
Speaker B:Dana for hair.
Speaker B:That's my Instagram handle.
Speaker B:In my Instagram bio, in my link tree is all my platforms, all my salons, my book resource, my agency.
Speaker B:I love, love, love things like this.
Speaker B:So happy to come share my journey.
Speaker B:I'll say.
Speaker B:And yeah, I'm here to help.
Speaker B:I'm an open book and I just, anything, any hard road I can save somebody is what I love to do.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker A:Well, thank you so much and we'll make sure all that is in the description below.
Speaker A:And until next time, I'll talk to you later.
Speaker B:Awesome.
Speaker B:Thank you.
