Episode 233
Pros & Cons of Working with Brands + How to Get There | Ben Mollin | CEO + Founder, Ben Mollin Project
Join us as Ben Mollin, CEO and Founder of the Ben Mollin Project, shares the real pros and cons of working with brands, how to stand out in a crowded industry, and why staying true to your purpose is the key to long-term success.
🔔Follow/subscribe to be the first to know when new episodes are released. Like what you hear? Leave us a review!
KEY TAKEAWAYS:
🔅Know Your "Why": Before working with brands, clarify your motivations—whether it's teaching, visibility, or financial growth—to ensure alignment with your goals.
🔅Authenticity Matters: Staying true to your artistic identity while working with brands helps maintain credibility and prevents "selling out."
🔅Networking is a Major Benefit: Partnering with brands opens doors to valuable industry connections, education teams, and corporate resources.
🔅Prepare for the Highs and Lows: The excitement of brand work comes with challenges like burnout, imposter syndrome, and industry competition.
🔅Stand Out by Filling Gaps: Instead of following trends, focus on what’s missing in the industry to carve out a unique niche and attract opportunities.
🔅Give Back with Purpose: Aligning your work with a cause or mission adds depth to your career and makes your efforts more impactful.
📷 Connect with Ben on Instagram
📷 Check out Ben Mollin Project on Instagram
💡Learn more about Ben Mollin Project
👉Subscribe to Ben's YouTube Channel
The Hairdresser Strong Show is all about Salon Owners, Rising Stylists, and Seasoned Stylists sharing their experiences, successes, failures, and advice to inform, educate, and empower their Fellow Hairdresser. We won’t stop until we are all: Hairdresser Strong.
CONNECT WITH US
📬 Subscribe to our free newsletter
The views and opinions of our guests are theirs and important to hear. Each guest's views and opinions are their own and we aim to bring you diverse perspectives, career paths and thoughts about the craft and industry so you can become Hairdresser Strong! They do not necessarily reflect the positions of HairdresserStrong.com.
Transcript
Ben Malin is the CEO and founder of the Ben Malin Project.
Speaker A:He's a 32 year industry veteran and really got a big start into the industry as he was the runner up for Sheer Genius of season one.
Speaker A:Having worked with many corporations and built his own businesses, et cetera, we are going to get a chance to pick his brain on the pros and cons of working with big corporations and brands for you to bring an idea to life or maybe even just work with a brand as an ambassador or whatever.
Speaker A:Today we're going to hear the pros and cons and all the ins and outs of all that.
Speaker A:Welcome back to the Hairdresser Strong show.
Speaker A:My name is Robert Hughes and I am your host and today I'm with Ben Mullen.
Speaker A:How are you doing today, Ben?
Speaker B:Hey, Robert.
Speaker B:What's up, man?
Speaker B:I'm doing really good.
Speaker B:Thanks for having me.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:Thank you for coming on the show to give all of our listeners and viewers some context.
Speaker A:I was introduced to Ben through Mareya.
Speaker A:I mean, Corey had mentioned you before and said, hey, I'm gonna go in early to hang out with Ben at Beauty Gives Back.
Speaker A:And then, and then I was talking to Maria who, who is one of the founders and hosts of Beauty Gives Back and, and that's in Chicago.
Speaker A:I recommend people go check that out and shout out to Maria.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:And then Mariah said, I talked to her about interviewing some people and I was, that's how I was connected with Ben.
Speaker A:Because, Ben, you opened the show at Beauty Gives Back.
Speaker A:I did, yeah.
Speaker A:That was an awesome experience.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:Well, I want to say thank you for taking the time to come on the show and I'm excited to have this conversation today.
Speaker A:I think it's going to be a good one for all of the people, entrepreneurs out there listen to the show.
Speaker B:Yeah, I've always.
Speaker B:We've only met each other a couple times, Robert, but you're a really easy guy to have a conversation with.
Speaker B:So when you ask me to do this, and we hopped on a couple months just to kind of break the ice and kind of, you know, shoot some crap around, it went really well.
Speaker B:So I enjoy talking to you.
Speaker B:You're incredibly well spoken and I definitely know that your heart's in the right place.
Speaker B:So my pleasure.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker A:Well, cool.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:And thank you for that.
Speaker A:Okay, so let's get dive right in.
Speaker A:Why don't just for any of our viewers and listeners who are meeting you for the first time or maybe don't know what you've been up to since your genius would you give us like a maybe kind of a high level overview of your story, kind of leading you up to where you are now with a little bit of context of the stuff that you're doing.
Speaker B:Man, that's like a show.
Speaker B:It's like a show.
Speaker B:It's like a show within a show.
Speaker B:I can try to condense it for you.
Speaker B: of Illinois and Indiana since: Speaker B:So I've been licensed and behind the chair for 30.
Speaker B:Oh wow, 32 years.
Speaker B: I've been self employed since: Speaker B:So I bought my first pre existing business when I was 21, moved out of my house super young, played in punk bands.
Speaker B:I've always been an artist.
Speaker B:Hair has always been something for me that's allowed me opportunities to kind of be completely independent and had salons my whole entire life that I would just run and manage.
Speaker B:I needed to be self employed because I was a full time musician.
Speaker B:And early on in my career I realized that if I had a chance to go play like the House of Blues or any of these last second gigs, that I would have to quit my job in order to not get fired from my band.
Speaker B:So my priorities have always been find a job that you can do that you love, that's got flexibility so you can pursue other things, especially dreams and goals.
Speaker B: Long story short,: Speaker B:So went out and filmed Sheer Genius.
Speaker B:I was living in Calumet City, Illinois to south side of Chicago and came back, the show aired and I turned into a celebrity hairdresser and that was it.
Speaker B:So I had no experience whatsoever with shows, commercial hairdressing.
Speaker B:I had never even been to a hair show prior to doing Sheer Genius.
Speaker B:I think once, like when I was in beauty school, we all drove down to the abs show and I think I bought some like cricket clips and like a water bottle.
Speaker B:I think that was the extent of it.
Speaker B:And I ended up becoming an educator for a global brand and traveled the world for 12 years, basically right up until the pandemic.
Speaker B:And that's it.
Speaker B: away from salon ownership in: Speaker B:And I am currently right now a full time performance coach with the Ben Mollen Project.
Speaker B:I'm a stay home dad.
Speaker B:I'm an ultra marathon runner, content creator and I help coach people through the hard stuff.
Speaker B:And I recently became a suicide prevention specialist Right around like two months ago.
Speaker B:So this is my current life.
Speaker B:Right now I'm working on an autobiography called the Ben Mallen Project.
Speaker B:Story about my life and career and the percentage of proceeds from doing that.
Speaker B:We're going to be raising money for men's mental health, suicide awareness and crisis line prevention.
Speaker B:So that's kind of where I'm at, man.
Speaker B:50 years old, I live in northwest Indiana.
Speaker B:I'm a stay home dad.
Speaker B:I still work, I still do hair.
Speaker B:I do about 15 people a week.
Speaker B:I got a little private studio that I see people out of.
Speaker B:My wife is a clinical herbalist and a caregiver and living the dream, man.
Speaker B:I've been blessed.
Speaker B:God's been really good to me.
Speaker B:And here we are.
Speaker A:Nice.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker A:So t give us what is the Ben Mollen project?
Speaker B: ething that I started back in: Speaker B:Like right around that time frame, as I started to get on my way out with working for the corporations as a, as a, as a, you know, a platform artist, a guest artist, educator, whatever you want to call it, a lot of the other stylists, the younger ones specifically, that were chasing the dream of what I had accomplished started asking me for advice.
Speaker B:So I had a lot of how it used to work is that there were specific tiers of educators and how they used to do it as levels.
Speaker B:There was level one, level two, level three, and then there was an educator, platform artist, and like international artists.
Speaker B:So everything was almost like a tier system.
Speaker B:It's almost like martial arts start off as a white belt, yellow belt, and just kind of work your way up.
Speaker B:I was very natural with presenting from stage, from having a improv background and then also being like a frontman for a rock band.
Speaker B:So super comfortable on stage.
Speaker B:And after the show had aired, after sure Genius had aired, I got to do things like the Today show and all these just massive, massive media opportunities.
Speaker B:And the thing that really grabbed my attention, Robert, is that at that level, there's somebody with you in the holding room that is calming you down and keeping you focused and centered.
Speaker B:And I was like, I want to be that person because you get this reward, but none of the risk.
Speaker B:You know, it's like you're like, hey, you know, this, we're just going to breathe.
Speaker B:This is what we're going to talk about.
Speaker B:This is, is how this is going to go.
Speaker B:So let me prepare you for the unexpected.
Speaker B:And when I found out that people like that existed, I felt the same way.
Speaker B:When I found out that hospitals had chaplains I was like, whoa, like, I need this, you know?
Speaker B:And it was the same thing with having a coach that would just kind of calm you down before this, like, massive, massive opportunity.
Speaker B:So that's what plan of the seed.
Speaker B:And then when I was working for joico, I was asked if I would facilitate a training on stage presentation in Louisville, Kentucky.
Speaker B: it might have been like maybe: Speaker B:So I said what you should say when you have an opportunity.
Speaker B:I said, yeah, I'll do it.
Speaker B:And then after I said, yeah, I was like, what am I going to do?
Speaker B:So I reached out to two people.
Speaker B:I reached out to a client of mine at the time that was a speech and debate coach at a college and another friend of mine, one of the funniest mofos ever, he was an improv comic for Second City.
Speaker B:And I said, hey, I have this opportunity to work with stylists.
Speaker B:And I tried explaining the world of what an educator is.
Speaker B:And they gave me some curriculum and I started learning improv curriculum and speech and debate tactics.
Speaker B:And that's how the project was born.
Speaker B:And I started rehearsing people, taking them out of their comfort zones and basically creating a safe place for your worst case scenario.
Speaker B:And I carried a little journal with me.
Speaker B:And for those four years, I would train within the company.
Speaker B:And when you do these types of trainings, and I recommend this for anybody who teaches anything, throw around a evaluation sheet when you're done and find out the impact that you had on the people that were there.
Speaker B:Because if you get good stuff back, that's what you use as far as your motivation, that you're doing a good job.
Speaker B:If you get nothing back, then you really have an understanding of what it is that you're trying to do.
Speaker B:So as I kept on doing this, the responses back started to really catch my attention.
Speaker B:And one specific.
Speaker B:And I wish I would have saved this or even remember the person's name that wrote it.
Speaker B:It was woman that wrote it.
Speaker B:And she said, these last few days have not only changed the way I present, but the way I think and feel about myself.
Speaker B:The world needs more of you.
Speaker B:And that's when I had the idea.
Speaker B:And I said, okay, I.
Speaker B:I would rather do this than show people how to cut and color hair, because this has a little bit more depth to it, because it's handling an emotional side of connection with other hairdressers.
Speaker B:So for such a long time, I would show people techniques that would make your salon life easier, but also sell a product.
Speaker B:The thing That I loved about the project is that nothing was for sale.
Speaker B:It was all for personal growth and development.
Speaker B:So I taught a class once in Stouffville, Ontario at my buddy Mark Galati's salon.
Speaker B:And there was a woman there by the name of Monica.
Speaker B:And Monica and Mark, after they took my class, helped me structure my project.
Speaker B:So now an idea that I had in my head, now it lived on a Google spreadsheet.
Speaker B:And when something's on a Google spreadsheet, Robert, that's when it's about to blossom and turn into a flower, right?
Speaker B:And I traveled with them for a couple of years here and there, working with artists.
Speaker B:And then when I became independent, I started working for all the companies and they would hire me to work with either their influencers or up and coming hairdressers and I would help them on their stage presentation and overcoming the social anxiety of being in front of other people.
Speaker B:And it's my life's work, it's evolved and my project and working with hairdressers has completely changed my life and the way that I view the world, I'm very passionate about it and I'm very passionate about it.
Speaker A:That's awesome.
Speaker A:That sounds amazing.
Speaker A:You know, and it's me.
Speaker A:It's like making think of, you know, the topic of our conversation today because you mentioned, you know, something you said in there is like, well then the brand started hiring me to help them and you know, that was, those are the early days of like building your coming out with your, your Ben Mullen project for sure.
Speaker A:And so I feel like that's a brilliant segue in to our conversation because some people might be like, wait a minute, how do brands like just like reach out to you?
Speaker A:I mean nowadays with the social media, you're go, you're like, there's so much noise out there.
Speaker A:And we had a lot of entrepreneurs and entrepreneurship, or at least, at least enough motivation and drive to build your own business seems to be, seems to be a very hot thing right now, especially amongst the younger stylists that are up and coming or the ones in school, they all got these multiple revenue stream concepts and ideas.
Speaker A:And so I think it's, I think, I think, I think the conversation about like, you know, working with a brand, you know, let's say you have an idea and you want to do something.
Speaker A:I, I, I, I don't know the best way to tackle this because like we could take an idea, a specific route or we could just say kind of more kind of higher overview.
Speaker A:Maybe, maybe it makes sense to start in like pros and cons of, of working with or partnering with a brand.
Speaker A:You know, is that a good place to start?
Speaker A:And then we can do offshoots of specific.
Speaker A:Because I'll have specific questions as we go down that.
Speaker B:Yeah, well, one of the things that I want to bring up, Robert, with the last time we talked is when you're an artist, especially like you're a hairdresser, right.
Speaker B:Really figuring out what it is that you want to do, but more importantly why you want to do it.
Speaker B:So I think when you realize those two questions, then you know how you want to introduce yourself to move forwards.
Speaker A:Okay, so figuring out why and what, why you want.
Speaker A:What you want to do and why you want to do it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:For example, say somebody came to me and said, you know what?
Speaker B:I feel like I'm incredibly talented and you know, I'm on social media.
Speaker B:I spend, you know, three hours a day on my.
Speaker B:I always ask people what their usage is just to find out how heavily involved they are with media and comparison and all those other things.
Speaker B:You know, I'm a three hour, four hour person a day on social media.
Speaker B:I do, you know, sew ins and balayage and A, B and C.
Speaker B:And I see the other people that are out there and I feel like I'm not just as good, but I actually feel like I'm better.
Speaker B:And I'm curious on what it would take to get myself to be on like these major stages.
Speaker B:And I would say, well, okay, well why do you want to do that and be honest with me, Well, I want to do it because I want to be a rock star hairdresser and I'd be like, okay, let's have that conversation.
Speaker B:Or I just really enjoy teaching and I want to go out there and share this and share that.
Speaker B:So when you're able to narrow the vision and the dream and the goal of what it is that you're going for, you're going to be a little bit more specific on knowing how to approach it because you know exactly what it is that you're trying to do.
Speaker B:If you use general terms and tenses for just improvement or leveling up, it's such a broad discussion that it's really important to understand what specifically it is that you're trying to do.
Speaker B:If you want to get into bed or into partnership with, for example, an extension brand, what is it that you're going to bring to the table that is going to create revenue for that extension brand?
Speaker B:So when you think about ideas of your placement And A, B and C, and this and that.
Speaker B:How good are you at generating sales?
Speaker B:How good are you at demonstrating techniques that are going to lead towards sales?
Speaker B:How are you going to sell what it is that you are going to show?
Speaker B:And once you figure that out and still know how to do it with still feeling like you're keeping your identity and that you're not like selling out, it's like a fine art.
Speaker B:So you're able to keep identity but still allow yourself to grow in more of a corporate Fortune 500 type company setting because you understand how to create.
Speaker B:And there's that word, create revenue.
Speaker B:And as you're able to create revenue, you're also able to create visibility for yourself as far as who you are.
Speaker B:So it's really understanding the layers of development when you're trying to climb up.
Speaker A:Okay, so I.
Speaker A:I'm gonna.
Speaker A:Okay, so I got some questions.
Speaker A:So let's say I'm.
Speaker A:I'm a.
Speaker A:I'm a stylist.
Speaker A:Well, actually, no, let's not do it that way.
Speaker A:How about this?
Speaker A:Brand ambassador?
Speaker A:So someone wants to become a brand ambassador.
Speaker A:Maybe this is not quite what you're talking about, but I feel like it's kind of like a little bit about what you're talking about.
Speaker A:Like, brand ambassadors end up on the big stages at the show.
Speaker A:Okay, which ones do get up?
Speaker A:I don't know, but I guess we.
Speaker A:That's like a pathway that we should.
Speaker A:We could discuss.
Speaker A:But let's say that there's a stylist.
Speaker A:They want to be in the big stage.
Speaker A:And, and when they look at currently, like, if I was to look at it, I would be like, okay, on the big stage.
Speaker A:Are these RAN ambassadors?
Speaker A:So how do I become a brand ambassador?
Speaker A:And then.
Speaker A:And then I've interviewed a bunch of brand ambassadors and they've said, like, you know, you got to love the product and post a lot and network and.
Speaker A:And then they offer you, or you ask and you get accepted in or you have to like, apply.
Speaker A:And so that's not really the same thing.
Speaker A:I don't think what you're talking about because you don't like, do we.
Speaker A:Does a person have to, like, really have that much depth and thought other than like, I love doing hair and I love this brand and I want.
Speaker A:I'm gonna like, do everything I can to get in front of them so I can get a job working for them.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:But here's the thing.
Speaker B:Why?
Speaker A:Why?
Speaker A:Probably let's say because I look at all these other people doing and it looks cool.
Speaker A:And I want to make some extra money doing something that looks cool and have an experience.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:Then I would say, do you feel like you can do it better than the people that you're watching?
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker B:And if you said yes, and I'd be like, so you're looking at it, then I would ask how many hours a day you're spending on social media.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:It's very important to me because if.
Speaker A:You'Re assuming or creating, go to your.
Speaker B:Settings, take a screenshot, send it to me.
Speaker B:I want to find out how much time that you're completely involved with it.
Speaker B:So I need to know where it's.
Speaker B:I love understanding everything about a decision, especially when it comes to hairdressers.
Speaker B:Are you making your decision out of jealousy?
Speaker B:Is it a spiteful decision?
Speaker B:Are you angry?
Speaker B:Are you comparing yourself?
Speaker B:Like, what, let's work, let's have a conversation.
Speaker B:Like, let's, let's really get down to the nitty and gritty.
Speaker B:Because if we're going to work together and proceed and move forwards with it, I want to make sure that the intentions are honest and pure and that it's something that we're going for, but we're not going forward out of it with any kind of a negative emotion.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I take it to the, to the nano level of just preparedness with everything.
Speaker B:But if somebody came to me and what's your definition of a brand ambassador?
Speaker B:Just to make sure that I understand.
Speaker A:The word when I say brand ambassador.
Speaker A:I probably am maybe bringing multiple people together, but it's someone who gets paid by the brand to teach and post and, and I would assume by extension go to shows.
Speaker A:I mean, I guess a brand ambassador could be all three, but not all brand ambassadors might be at the shows.
Speaker A:Maybe some brand ambassadors are just teaching and just posting.
Speaker A:I guess some bread browsers could just be posting.
Speaker A:But I'm talking specifically about the people who, if I go to Premier Orlando, okay, they're going to be in a breakout room or maybe on another stage.
Speaker A:They'll be teaching some class or talking or doing hair on stage.
Speaker A:But I also see on social media talking about doing hair or professional development or whatever.
Speaker A:They're giving advice.
Speaker B:Got it, Got it.
Speaker B:I would say the first advice that I would, that I would think about with anything is what's your style?
Speaker B:And not necessarily, like, what's your style as far as, like, hair goes?
Speaker B:But what, what says, you know, okay, I'll give you an example, Robert.
Speaker B:If you think about record labels and if you think about, like, Virgin Records or Atlantic.
Speaker B:There's specific genres that fall under that umbrella.
Speaker B:There's jazz, there's heavy metal, there's Christian, there's Christian, contemporary, light rock, hip hop, urban crunk, all this.
Speaker B:All this stuff.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:So first of all, what.
Speaker B:What are you?
Speaker B:What's your demographic?
Speaker B:And then I would go in and just kind of find out exactly the demographics of the people that it is that they're using.
Speaker B:Now, when you want to get into a relationship with a brand, you have to do it under your own identity.
Speaker B:So understanding who you are, core as a person, the people that you're going to attract.
Speaker B:Are you a rock and roller, you more hip hop, you more urban, like, what's your feel?
Speaker B:You more country, you more country, alternative, country, Christian.
Speaker B:I mean, you see what I'm saying?
Speaker B:There's so many ways to figure that out.
Speaker B:So if you know how to represent yourself, then you're going to know how to sell yourself very specifically.
Speaker B:So that there's.
Speaker B:You've almost done the thinking for the person that you're trying to have a relationship with, that, hey, guess what?
Speaker B:I live in the South.
Speaker B:I'm from, like a small town.
Speaker B:I'm so good in, like, you know, this, like, Garden City, Kansas, and like these small little areas.
Speaker B:These are my people.
Speaker B:I go into small distributorships.
Speaker B:I go to all the state RDAs and the Armstrong McCall's.
Speaker B:And I really feel comfortable in that type of setting and arena.
Speaker B:Okay, great.
Speaker B:Wow.
Speaker B:Because we would love to have some people that are in the midwest or some of these flyover states to do A, B and C.
Speaker B:So understanding that you're fulfilling a potential gap for something that already exists a lot of times is the easiest way to kind of just join it and just throw yourself into it without even talking about anything else.
Speaker B:Hey, was on your site.
Speaker B:You know, I spend a lot of time following your artists.
Speaker B:I'm incredibly inspired by you guys.
Speaker B:I love the product, I love the brand.
Speaker B:But this is.
Speaker B:This.
Speaker B:Here's my idea.
Speaker B:This is what I'm thinking.
Speaker B:You know, this is where I'm from.
Speaker B:This is my demographic.
Speaker B:I've noticed from looking on your social media and going to your shows that you have a very specific look.
Speaker B:But this is what I.
Speaker B:This is what I'm offering.
Speaker B:This is what I feel like I can bring to the table.
Speaker B:So when you're bringing something with you, especially the idea, I believe that it lets the person know that you're not just coming asking for a favor or asking for an opportunity, but you also have an opportunity for them.
Speaker A:Pros and Cons of working with a brand are because that is a piece that we kind of launched into this conversation.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I feel like we should have that piece.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:We get into any more very specific things.
Speaker B:Yeah, I would love to talk the pros and cons of working for a brand.
Speaker B:Also keep in mind it's going to be from a personal perspective, from my point of view.
Speaker B:But immediately the pros of working for a brand is the networking with their team.
Speaker B:Oh, other artists that have earned the right to just kind of operate at that like next level.
Speaker B:I call it the visible level.
Speaker B:When you meet other people that are really good and really passionate, the team that you meet, I mean, you're, you're, you're meeting another part of you that could eventually turns into like extended family.
Speaker B:I mean, talk about likes and goals and similar interests.
Speaker B:You got people that have started off behind the chair.
Speaker B:They went to beauty school, they work behind the chair.
Speaker B:And now they're operating like beyond the chair.
Speaker B:They're getting flown on planes, they're going out for cocktails and steak dinners and all this other stuff and doing photo shoots and being interviewed and going on podcasts and doing lives and all these other things that are just awesome things to do.
Speaker B:And then your dopamine's on like 10 and you're just like, woo, this is amazing.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:And it's great.
Speaker B:And you meet people that are in finance and sometimes you meet people that are the people that make the products that you learn so much about our industry when you are working with the people that create the products that are sold to us for us to use.
Speaker B:So and it's amazing.
Speaker B:And you meet great people, phenomenal people.
Speaker B:Another pro is just the internal networking.
Speaker B:Once you get a company behind you, like now all of a sudden you have a social media department, you have a, you know, an art department, people that are making flyer.
Speaker B:The first time I got a flyer and I didn't have to make it, I was like, I have arrived.
Speaker B:Like, this is friggin amazing.
Speaker B:So there's way more pros than cons.
Speaker B:Sometimes if you go about it and do it right, you can make really good money doing really cool things with people that you just adore.
Speaker B:Door.
Speaker B:And anyone that's been on the road or been on tour knows exactly what I'm talking about.
Speaker B:Khan.
Speaker B:That whole work life balance does not exist.
Speaker B:It doesn't.
Speaker B:People used to ask me all the time, robert, so you seem like you're never home and you seem like you really got your stuff together.
Speaker B:Like what's Your secret?
Speaker B:I said there's no secret.
Speaker B:I'm a hot mess.
Speaker B:Yeah, so there's that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, there's those pros and cons and then if for any reason you get something canceled and eventually there's gonna be the younger, cuter, better, funnier version of yourself coming right up behind you.
Speaker B:And you have to be okay with change, you know, so it's, there's definite.
Speaker B:You know, I would say the pros are more like physical in the moment.
Speaker B:Like, yes, this is amazing when you're riding that wave, but when the wave gets too big and you fall off and got to find that wave again, how are you in times of uncertainty?
Speaker B:And that's usually when the cons start to kind of rear their head.
Speaker B:And the cons can be self doubt imposter syndrome, comparativeness.
Speaker B:So there's a lot of cons, but majority of those are all self induced.
Speaker B:And the pros are the pros of operating at that million billion dollar budget because you're working for this huge company through their education department.
Speaker B:And education is usually the smallest piece of the puzzle, but who cares because you're in it and you're going to Miami and you're out taking pictures by the pool and all that.
Speaker B:It's awesome.
Speaker B:I recommend it to anybody to feel what that feels like.
Speaker B:But going into it with realistic expectations and understanding, okay, this is only one side of this.
Speaker B:When I'm not on stage, when I'm off stage, what is it worth it?
Speaker B:Does all of this stuff start to play nice together and everything else?
Speaker B:I think that there's keys and moderations.
Speaker B:Key and just moderation with anything.
Speaker B:And there's also key with strategic planning.
Speaker B:And the thing that I would change differently about my experience of being an educator globally was I would have found my expectations, I would have asked a lot more questions to people that were already involved with what I was jumping into, as opposed to letting the endorphins just kind of put me where they needed to be because it felt good.
Speaker A:Nice.
Speaker A:Nice.
Speaker B:Cool.
Speaker A:Well, I think that sounds awesome.
Speaker A:I had, I had.
Speaker A:I personally didn't have the experience with a big brand.
Speaker A:I was with a local brand that I got.
Speaker A:I got to go on trips and go to London every year.
Speaker B:Really?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:I never went to London.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:That's awesome.
Speaker A:Yeah, we get to like be on stage and I mean, the company had like 300 people in it, so it's great.
Speaker A:Yeah, but it's all local.
Speaker A:We didn't get a chance to meet like manufacture chemists and people Create products and the finance department, it was all hair and education and entertainment, and it was, it was really fun.
Speaker A:So I, I, I agree.
Speaker A:And then if you can do it with a bigger brand, then, then you get all the other, all those other perks that, why not?
Speaker B:Yeah, why not?
Speaker B:Even if you're just like Johnny Punk rock or, you know, Linda Loveless punk rock, and you're like, I'm not doing, doing anything for, but check it out.
Speaker B:See what it's all about, you know, experience what that feels like.
Speaker B:Life is about experiences.
Speaker B:Some good and some bad, you know, and if you feel like you've reached, like, your goal to, to be recognized and do A, B and C, I mean, this is our only trip around the sun from what I hear.
Speaker B:So really go out there and explore.
Speaker B:The thing that's great about hairdressing is that there's so many ways to do it.
Speaker B:There's so many ways to do it.
Speaker B:And if you truly want to be creative and be an artist, then, you know, don't, you know, have dreams without fear and limitations.
Speaker B:You know, I mean, when you think, when you make decisions as like a hairdresser, Robert, you tend to stay within, like a parameter, right?
Speaker B:But when you allow yourself to be like a free thinker or an artist, it's open pasture, there's no, there's no fences, right?
Speaker B:So you can create any idea that you have for, for anything, you know.
Speaker B:And, you know, hairdressing is an incredibly creative thing, you know, and it can be artistic at times.
Speaker B:But to think like an artist and operate as a hairdresser, I think that's the, that's the key component with there don't go into an idea.
Speaker B:Identifying is what you do professionally and trying to meet the standards of what it is that you're seeing.
Speaker B:And again, it, for me, it comes back to screen usage time.
Speaker B:If you're spending three to four hours looking at the same thing, hearing the same words, you're traveling in that parameter.
Speaker B:You're using words like synergistic and all these other types of things.
Speaker B:You're almost borrowing the vocabulary.
Speaker B:It's just how it works, Robert.
Speaker B:Yeah, I've been working with artists for years, but if you're developing this creative side, you're like, okay, I have this idea.
Speaker B:I really want to create something that I've never ever seen before.
Speaker B:That's an artist, right?
Speaker B:And then you have this artistic idea and this vision, and then, yeah, now you bring into what you do professionally to make that happen, though.
Speaker B:So artist first, hairdresser second.
Speaker B:When it comes to all of that.
Speaker A:Nice.
Speaker A:And what do you, I mean, this has been a great conversation and we're about, on our time, at our time.
Speaker A:So I like to, I like to wrap up our conversations with like some advice for some of the various people that I imagine that are listening and watching, you know, just based on the audience and then the subject matter of the, of, of, of our conversation.
Speaker A:There is the startup, the entrepreneur, the hairpreneur, the beautypreneur.
Speaker A:Who's got an idea, who.
Speaker A:Or maybe they've already started working on the idea.
Speaker A:Let's, let's go, let's go in.
Speaker A:Like, not just the idea, but actually has some proof of the idea in working.
Speaker A:They've already tried to play around with it.
Speaker A:Now they want to take it to the next level and they are wanting to, they are thinking that there would get like an investment or a sponsor or some sort of assistance financially from a big brand.
Speaker A:I'd be curious to know the startup person, you know, wants, wants to partner with someone or get access to capital through a.
Speaker A:Sure, yeah.
Speaker B:And money, when they have a good idea, who doesn't, who doesn't want money to pull it off?
Speaker B:I mean, yeah, for sure.
Speaker A:Well, and I, I, I, I, I also understand because I also know that, you know, I'm a real nerd when it comes to like, startups, like, especially like tech startups.
Speaker A:And okay, I like to like, learn about them.
Speaker A:And there are a lot of good ideas out there that don't get off the ground, but somebody eventually gets a version of it off the ground.
Speaker A:And so like, it does come down to execution, but it also comes down to funding.
Speaker A:Like if you can't get the project funded, someone else, if it is a good idea, someone else will come around.
Speaker A:Either take your idea and improve upon it and make it viable, or someone else will come up with a similar idea and create it.
Speaker A:I mean, that's how I've seen the startup space, so I'd be curious about that.
Speaker A:And then also for the per, for the startup hairdresser who's like getting started in their career and they're looking for, to spice it up or to grow themselves.
Speaker A:And I feel like you've already kind of talked to this person, but maybe like kind of tie it off with like some last words of advice or wisdom.
Speaker B:When it comes to social media and when it comes to just wanting to identify yourself as doing something unique, don't focus on what it is that you see.
Speaker B:Focus on what you don't see.
Speaker B:Because what the things that you don't see, that's the missing link and that's the opportunity.
Speaker B:That's number one.
Speaker B:I was able to operate at this crazy level because one of my mentors, his name's Adam, he showed me how to do permanent waves and really cool stuff with it.
Speaker B:So in the world where everybody started to get, you know, there were people were using vivids, the direct deposit colors, doing the real vibrant, you know, type hair, you know, unicorn hair, rainbow hair, all these names.
Speaker B:I was too busy taking flexi tools and doing perms and no.
Speaker B:And I called myself the Permanator because my mentor, rest her peace, rest in peace.
Speaker B:Francie Sorum called herself the Permanator and she gave me the title after she told me the techniques.
Speaker B:Find your niche.
Speaker B:You want to do something original, focus on what it is that you don't see and that's your niche.
Speaker B:Once you establish your niche, it's going to be easier to grab the attention of people that are in that two to three to four hour range of going up and down.
Speaker B:You're like, whoa, what's this?
Speaker B:And we're all guilty of it.
Speaker B:You're scrolling.
Speaker B:You're like, man, what was, what did I just watch?
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:So what is that?
Speaker B:What is it that you wish you saw more of?
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:And be that person.
Speaker B:Create that person.
Speaker B:You are that person.
Speaker B:Think like an artist, not a hairdresser.
Speaker B:When it comes to having an idea, figuring out what that idea is and sitting there with a calculator and figuring out how we can make this happen.
Speaker B:Is this something that we're going to do brick and mortar?
Speaker B:Or is this something that we're going to create digitally?
Speaker B:We might not have an event, but how much would it cost to make it look like the biggest, coolest event the world has ever seen?
Speaker B:Also, what's your non for profit that you're going to partner up with?
Speaker B:Because as you move forwards with an idea, you always have to give it back.
Speaker B:We call it mitzvah in Hebrew.
Speaker B:What are you giving in order to receive?
Speaker B:So if you want to raise money for underprivileged youth, money for kids to go to beauty colleges or culinary arts or anything else like that, what's your cause?
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:What's your purpose for this?
Speaker B:Hey, wouldn't it be awesome if we raised $150 for the local women's shelter for A, B and C?
Speaker B:Because it feels good.
Speaker B:Even talking about it feels good.
Speaker B:There's like an emotional connection with it, right?
Speaker B:And just look at things differently.
Speaker B:Like don't look at things like, you're involved in it, kind of go around it and look down and just kind of fill in the cracks of things that you think could make it stronger and more perfect and focus on the things that you don't see.
Speaker B:And I think that that would be my advice for anybody that was looking to move forwards, not only in their life as a professional cosmetologist, but also as a human being.
Speaker B:You know, what's your cause?
Speaker B:What's your purpose?
Speaker B:Why do you want to do it?
Speaker B:Well, I'd love to give money back to.
Speaker B:You know, when I was younger, I was really inspired by, you know, my grade school teacher and how cool would it be if we just kind of raise money for education in, like, an underprivileged city in America or anything else like that?
Speaker B:So when the purpose and the cause is there, everything just seems to kind of happen the way that it should naturally.
Speaker B:If we try to force too many things, we lose the intention of why it is that we're doing it.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:And I think that that's the best way that I know.
Speaker B:That's so broad, Robert.
Speaker B:I could talk to you for days, but I think that that's a really good conversation to have with yourself.
Speaker B:And I think that we've dropped enough little nuggets here and there to have a really good listen back.
Speaker B:And hopefully people are gonna be like, dude, that was awesome.
Speaker B:Because again, Robert, you're just.
Speaker B:You have a very, very good soul.
Speaker B:Like, I can just.
Speaker B:I can tell.
Speaker B:I can't.
Speaker B:I don't know if it's great or not, but I know it's good.
Speaker B:You know, I know it's good, and I'm really good at knowing these things.
Speaker B:And the two times that I've seen you in person, you just.
Speaker B:You just seem like you really.
Speaker B:Your intentions are in the right place.
Speaker B:And once your intentions are in the right place, then we have to put purpose behind those intentions.
Speaker B:And I feel like you're on your path to go ahead and do that.
Speaker B:And if you ever need anything from me in the future, whether it's advice or, hey, I got an idea.
Speaker B:Can I run it by you?
Speaker B:Just shoot me a text, man.
Speaker B:You'd be amazed what we can figure out when you have somebody on the outside looking in, as opposed to just looking on the inside out.
Speaker B:You know, a lot of times it's all perspective.
Speaker B:It's all perspective.
Speaker A:Totally.
Speaker A:This is so good that all of that was so on point and so, so amazing.
Speaker A:So it was a great tie off.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And that.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:That's the show.
Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker B:That's a wrap, baby.
Speaker B:That's a wrap.
Speaker B:Yes, it is.
Speaker B:Good.
Speaker A:Well, thank you so much for coming on the show, and we'll talk to you later.
Speaker B:Sounds good, brother.
